Tuesday, October 27, 2009
Saving Johnny D.
For those few of you at the Watchdog blog that have taken the time to "preach" to me regarding Christianity and your beliefs, I thank you. Yet, that blog is not the right place for that sort of thing. WD has a specific beef with FBCJ, and he uses his blog to chronicle that beef, as well as to offer and gain support from others of a like mind. If you wish to converse with me regarding your beliefs, then please do so here or through e-mail. It is not right to use WD's blog for what amounts to something that is not really related to the main purpose of his blog.
For the record, I do skim over what you all write there to me, but you must understand I have heard it all before. In fact, I have quite thoroughly studied the issues and verses and thoughts you all have brought up. When you go into preaching mode, my eyes tend to roll back in my head and I drift away. As I said, I have heard it all before. Not only have I heard it, but I believed it. Completely. You must understand that. It really is possible for someone to thoroughly and completely believe something, and then have a change of mind. You did it at least once. At some point you did not believe anything you heard about Jesus, and then at some point you changed your mind and began to believe what other humans were telling you about Jesus. Same with me - only it went both ways for me.
Let me start the discussion this way. Let us say for the sake of this discussion, you have children. Your children bad mouth you and steal your car. They are guilty. You have proof. So, you build a torture chamber in your basement and proceed to torture your children for their disobedience. You tie them up next to a hot fire, and poke them with hot irons - all because they disobeyed you - and you do this for as long as you are alive and able to do so - assuming your children live through all the torture.
I totally reject to the way you have decided to discipline your children, but you reply, "I'm their parent, and I can do whatever I want." To me, you're no different than the person that squashes a lizard just because you can. How is what your God does with eternal punishment in hell any different - with the exception of course that it is forever? How is that moral?
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8 comments:
Thanks for the blog Johnny!
God does not condemn His Children by faith thru Jesus Christ to an eternal Hell!
Hell is for the Devil and those who reject forgiveness thru faith in Jesus!!!
By one acknowledging their sin and turning away from sin and asking to be forgiven of their trangressions thru the atonement of Christ who paid the penalty,God no longer holds their trespasses against them!!!
Johnny it's akin to the animal that killed that baby Sumer.He has committed and awful crime and when the authorities catch him they will have a trial and condemn him to death(I hope)or life in prison!
He could apologize or whatever but the consequences remain!!!
Their will be no one to intercede and take the earthly penalty in his place!
This compares to the Holiness and Morality of God in that He can not allow sin to go unpunished,just as I don't won't the killer of young Sumer to go unpunished.
But Christ as you have probably heard many times interceded for everyone who would humble themselves and acknowlegded that they have sinned and broken God Laws thereby putting themselves under His wrath or judgment!!!
Christ the sinless Son of God took the punishment for my crime(sins)and suffered His Fathers judgment in my stead!!!
Now therefore God can forgive me once and for all!!!
Thanks for the opportunity to communicate my friend!!!
Johnny D: Your saving work is all being done by Our Lord Jesus Christ. It is His work. From my perspective, your questions will be answered by Him. God bless you.
Thanks for your responses. Later today I shall respond with a bit more depth.
"Johnny it's akin to the animal that killed that baby Sumer.He has committed and awful crime and when the authorities catch him they will have a trial and condemn him to death(I hope)or life in prison!
He could apologize or whatever but the consequences remain!!!
Their will be no one to intercede and take the earthly penalty in his place!
This compares to the Holiness and Morality of God in that He can not allow sin to go unpunished,just as I don't won't the killer of young Sumer to go unpunished."
Are you saying that Somer's killer can't be forgiven? And if he can be forgiven, what sort of morality is your god pushing? How is it that a person that is decent, upstanding, never commits a murder or rape or any sort of felony, how is it that he/she is just as guilty as the person that watched the light go out in Somer's eyes as he/she murdered the child? I am throwing the bullshit flag on this. There is no comparison here. To say, "All have sinned" is a cop-out. It's the same as saying, "Well, God is God, and God can do whatever God wants." How is that any better than the Mafia boss that breaks your legs because you can't pay the vig on your last loan?
Also, answer me this. Do you believe the god of the bible created everything?
"Johnny D: Your saving work is all being done by Our Lord Jesus Christ. It is His work. From my perspective, your questions will be answered by Him. God bless you."
Thy Peace, I really do like you. I see all of your posts at WD's blog, and I saw your post about Wade Burleson - the one directed to me. Just so you know, I have been reading Wade's blog for quite some time. He's a good dude, and I wish more were like him. I once left him a comment that went something like this, "Wade, I'd probably still be in church if you had been my pastor. I mean, I don't know for sure, but you seem like an honest man, and that's all I'm asking for."
I don't remember the exact comment, but it went something like the above. And I meant it. But, back to you.
Your post seems like a cop-out to me, but at the same time it seems like the most honest thing any Christian has ever said to me - at least in the matter of salvation.
In my opinion, you are right. Yet, even those that say how one can't do any "works" to be saved, can't explain exactly how and why one must have "faith" in order to be saved. Huh? "Johnny, your great learning is driving you crazy!" Yet, I say, having "faith" requires work. I mean, admit it, you have to work to have faith. You have to suspend your belief in many areas of science to have faith that the world is 8000 years old, that there is no natural selection, etc. Don't you have to say to yourself something like, "These scientists are all deluded. They are satanic. They are lying. They are crazy," etc. Don't you have to do that to dismiss all of the science that comes in and disproves the Bible as being anything more than a book written by men?
Nature of sin is little bit more complicated than what I thought it to be. I am still trying to understand all this myself. I also have difficulty with young earth theory as in Genesis.
I truly do not understand how a person is saved and what happens within. I have read the Bible more than 15 times, and yet I know very little.
I do enjoy reading Oswald Chambers. Today's reading JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH, attempts to answer how the saving takes place.
I am not ashamed to admit that I can not answer your question, for I grapple with these questions myself. Sometimes the answers are there, sometimes I am left to ponder lot longer.
Thy Peace, you are a touch of grace upon my life. Thank you. E-mail me sometime. I tried to mail you, but didn't see any link on your blog.
Oh, and I like Chambers too. It has been a long time, so I don't remember which class it was at Bible college, but one of the text books was "My Utmost for His Highest."
One of my other faves was Phil Yancey. "The Jesus I Never Knew" is one of the best books I've ever read WRT Jesus.
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